Tuesday, January 26, 2010
Post 1
My question for everyone is this: As was brought up in class many times there is a doppelganger of Challenger. Who is the king of the ape people, my question is whether or not, first off, he or challenger is the actual doppelganger. Secondly, because he may have been the more 'savage' side, how does this reflect upon Challenger's original behavior towards Malone at the beginning of the novel, and maybe...somehow, Challenger left a piece of himself behind after his first exposition? maybe thats a bit out of nowhere but I'm just wondering. And maybe later in the novel we'll learn that somehow Challenger has actually killed a part of himself along with the king.
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
So, the definition given in class of a doppleganger was a sort of evil twin. I don't think it matters whether Challenger was the doppleganger of the ape man or if the ape man was the doppleganger of Challenger. Whose to say it can't be both? That they are each others dopplegangers? It comes down to a perspective issue. If you look at things from the ape man's side(although I doubt he know what a doppleganger is) Challenger is the doppleganger. On the other hand, if you look at things from Challenger's side the ape man is the doppleganger. It is true that the ape man was killed by Challenger, so this would suggest that Challenger is the doppleganger, but whose to say that something is not going to happen to Challenger later in the book like his death, which doesn't have to mean a literal death (although this could be equally possible). It could be that Challenger, as you suggested will have part of himself killed although it may not have anything to do with him killing the king. The doppleganger could be acting as a foreshadow of some event having to deal with Challenger's death or change in his mannerism, the way he thinks, attitude, etc., which could be brought on by these extreme experiences he is having.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, to be realistic, I don't think the king of the ape-man is the doppelganger of Professer Challenger. However, as a fiction book, "The Lost World" describes an unkonwn world which is rich of prehistoric creatures. As we had discussed in class, during the explorers' adventure, the author often describes the features in the unkonwn world as some similar features in the real world to draw a parallel. I think Doyle brings up the concept of a doppelganger to keep drawing parallel to the real world. The first time I read this part, I think Doyle only wants to create a interesting effect to draw reader's attention. However, as I went on reading the book, I realize that the concept of doppelganger also brings up the question: whether now is always better than the past. Because as Professer Challenger says, he is a educated man and he is superior to other men and of course, the ape-man, it is very ironic that the king of ape-man looks like him. Also, the fact that Professer Challenger asks Malone not to mention this part in his press and that he admires the king of the ape-man as "a creature of great distinction-a most remarkably handsome and intelligent personality" show that Professer Challenger begins to question himself about his own belief of the superiority.
ReplyDeleteFor the second question, I think it is very important to notice that in page 209, the last paragraph. In this paragraph, Malone "had a glimpse of the human spirits behind their scientific masks." Also in page 211, the last paragraph describe the changes of the apperances of Malone and his comrades. Both of them give me a sense that they all have lost some part of themselves in the unkonwn world. The unkonwn world has changed their beliefs and also characters which associate with them. Yes, Challeger lost some parts of himself in the lost world, as well as the other three.
Challenger and the Ape Man King both represent the doppelganger for one another due to the following reasons. They are the leaders of their respective groups upon the Plateau, have strikingly similar features despite being different species, are very obstinate in what they want to do, and have a tendency to be physical and confrontational towards others. Even though only the Ape Man King was killed, I predict that some aspect of Challenger's personality may change (or "die away") later in the novel.
ReplyDeleteChallenger's behavior towards Malone is very aggressive and physical reflecting his "savage" or primitive personality despite being a very learned man of science.
Well I've noted that as the novel ends, it is quite clear that Prof. Challenger has not changed one bit. When they meet for supper and talk over their adventures (before Roxton presents the diamonds), Malone describes all the characters as being essentially the same as they were before their journey, except for the fact that Summerlee was now a reluctant friend of Challenger. The only person who seems to have changed the most among the expedition party is the narrator himself, i.e. Malone, since he has matured quite a bit.
ReplyDeleteChallenger is still described as being insolent, proud and possessing the same temperament as he did before the expedition - the only difference was that he considered Roxton, Summerlee and Malone as his equals. I'm pretty sure he behaved in his usual manner to the rest of the people on the planet after the incident.
So I can conclude that Tarun's prediction of the "savage" part of Challenger dying after he had killed the Ape King is inaccurate. As for Zihao's views that Challenger begins to question his own superiority, I don't think that's the case either. The reason I believe that Challenger wished Malone not to print the resemblance between him and the Ape king was more due to his own pride and insolence. He knew that people hated ape-men, and if they found out the resemblance, Challenger would become the laughing stock of all England, and people would hate him more than they already did. His personal views about the Ape king (obviously biased as he loved everything about himself) are hence understandable.
I've always felt that this doppelganger theme stands on very thin ice with respect to this novel. I don't think Doyle would play with this notion and not give appropriate evidence in the book. If there was a doppelganger of Malone, that would be understandable, but not with Challenger.
Ok, so let's say the doppleganger of Challenger wasn't as big as we said it was. I means its all about a personal point of view. However, I don't think Doyle would put an ape-man that looks EXACTLY like Challenger for no reason at all. So I also don't think its fair to say that the doppleganger concept is "on thin ice". For one thing, the definition DOES fit considering that the ape man that was/wasn't Challenger's doppleganger was killed shortly after running into Challenger. And now that we have gotten to the end of the book, we can see that by the evidence that Hasan presented it is not what I or some other people thought it was. Also, a doppleganger isn't a theme exactly. A theme is something that the author is trying to convey. I think it was used more as a literary technique. Previously, I thought it was a symbol of some sort, but not so much now. But still the author had to put it in there for some reason. Maybe its usage was instead just to highlight some of Challenger's characteristics such as his pride and conceit, also what Hasan mentioned. Or to provide an image of contrast with the present and the past and to help the reader draw similarities. But I don't think he just stuck it in there for no reason at all.
ReplyDeleteHmmm... I have to admit that it's unlikely Doyle would put in a double of Challenger for no reason at all. Maybe you're right after all, Carliegh - but it may be that the doppelganger was put in there for all the reasons mentioned above - contrast with past and present, character traits, superstitions, etc. Maybe Doyle intentionally left his real reasons vague, so that readers could come to their own conclusions, as many authors do.
ReplyDeleteExactly, it could also just be for a humorous effect. The process of identifying something interesting or that sticks out in a novel and trying to think of reasons it was there is part of analyzing the novel Its ust in this case the theory did not play out quite as we expected. However I still think there is enough evidence to argue the points even though it may be a little more difficult to deal with the counter arguments.
ReplyDeleteThe problem with all of these points, and my question really, is that because challenger doesn't change at the end...did Doyle really know what he meant? It would be a very interesting conversation to ask him about it. Maybe he could have used the doppleganger as that of malone instead, because we have decided that malone is the only one who has made a real change in character throughout the novel. so I know its close to the end of the week, but would any of you answer the question:do you think Doyle should have put a doppleganger of malone instead of challenger? in my opinion this may have been a better choice because as i said before, malone is the only one who really changed in his journey.
ReplyDeleteDespite an entertaining read I was not too satisfied with the conclusion of this novel, since I was hoping that Mr Malone would marry the girl of his dreams-Gladys. Prehaps Sir Arthur Doyle created this ending to show how Mr Malone had "matured" after the expedition, by having higher goals in life than "so ready to adapt himself to a silly girl's whim" (page 5).
ReplyDelete