In the Star Trek episode viewed in class on Monday how does Spock’s supposed character as a Vulcan compare to what his actions say about him? Why do you think Spock admitted guilt towards the end and asked to be arrested?
People expect that with his race being a completely logical and rational one, he would make all the right decisions. The problem is that they don't know (like us at this point) as much about the situation at Talhos IV as he seems to know, hence they cannot make an accurate judgement on whether he is right or wrong.
Being rational/logical does not automatically imply subservience and other qualities like honesty, non-violence, etc. It may certainly be rational to lie in certain circumstances. As the Italian guy yesterday told us (I can't remember the sub's name now), because rationality and application of logic are qualities that humans aspire for, something they consider as the best of human nature, they automatically assume that any being possessing this quality will naturally possess the best of other human traits.
In the first half we saw, there was a slight confrontation between McCoy and Kirk about whether Spock could really betray the crew of Enterprise. While McCoy maintained the typical stance I just explained above, Kirk thought differently. He thought that because of Spock's half-human (and hence half-emotional) nature, he was certainly susceptible to harboring notions of mutiny and deceit, just like the rest of us.
There is something odd in this. Captain Kirk automatically assumes that emotion (humanness) and rationality (Vulcanness) cannot coexist. That is, a person acts solely based on which one of these qualities happens to be dominating the mind at the time of his action.
Just something to think about, guys. I have a question then: Is it wrong to assume emotion and rationality can coexist at the same time, and decisions be made by both influences, rather than just one at a time?
Also, do any of you think that's really how Spock's mind works? Like a see-saw, vacillating between rationality and emotion?
His rational nature gives him a "higher level of thoughts", and those thoughts direct him to do what is condisered "irrational". The episode will always turn out that when some characters do something not expected, there will always be a reason for that, which I think is the main way to attract the audience... Anyway, as the episode goes on, we will discover the truth and understand why he is doing all this.
If any of you saw JJ Abrams new Star Trek, there was a crucial scene in which Spock Prime (the older Spock) tells Kirk to take control of Enterprise by making Spock believe that he is unfit for duty. Kirk subsequently provokes Spock into a violent reaction, making Spock realize that he is, indeed 'emotionally compromised' and resigns from his post.
Also, in Star Trek universe, the Vulcans do not completely eschew emotion. They do feel passion, anger and love but they do not let them dictate their actions, and do not display it openly. In fact, the Romulans, who share ancestry with the Vulcans, represent the flip side: they let their passions dictate their actions and display it openly, though they are aware of rationality. Humans, then are a balance between the two extremes.
Also there is one more dynamic: nobody is really sure how Spock's mind works. (This is in fact, the prime source of conflict in many episodes and films). Most of the time his thoughts are hidden behind a stoic and still expression, and nobody can tell whether he is analyzing a situation, tacitly accepting the consequences, doing some introspection, or formulating a mutiny.
I agree with hasan that no one has any idea how spock's mind works, in his mind he could still always be telling the truth and that in some way there was a transmission and although he fabricated it maybe in some way he calculated that his actions were for the best and he needed to have them. Also, I feel that he asked to be arrested at the end because it was at the point where nothing could be done by anyone other than him to stop the process and therefore he was able to turn himself in.
People expect that with his race being a completely logical and rational one, he would make all the right decisions. The problem is that they don't know (like us at this point) as much about the situation at Talhos IV as he seems to know, hence they cannot make an accurate judgement on whether he is right or wrong.
ReplyDeleteBeing rational/logical does not automatically imply subservience and other qualities like honesty, non-violence, etc. It may certainly be rational to lie in certain circumstances. As the Italian guy yesterday told us (I can't remember the sub's name now), because rationality and application of logic are qualities that humans aspire for, something they consider as the best of human nature, they automatically assume that any being possessing this quality will naturally possess the best of other human traits.
In the first half we saw, there was a slight confrontation between McCoy and Kirk about whether Spock could really betray the crew of Enterprise. While McCoy maintained the typical stance I just explained above, Kirk thought differently. He thought that because of Spock's half-human (and hence half-emotional) nature, he was certainly susceptible to harboring notions of mutiny and deceit, just like the rest of us.
There is something odd in this. Captain Kirk automatically assumes that emotion (humanness) and rationality (Vulcanness) cannot coexist. That is, a person acts solely based on which one of these qualities happens to be dominating the mind at the time of his action.
Just something to think about, guys. I have a question then: Is it wrong to assume emotion and rationality can coexist at the same time, and decisions be made by both influences, rather than just one at a time?
Also, do any of you think that's really how Spock's mind works? Like a see-saw, vacillating between rationality and emotion?
His rational nature gives him a "higher level of thoughts", and those thoughts direct him to do what is condisered "irrational". The episode will always turn out that when some characters do something not expected, there will always be a reason for that, which I think is the main way to attract the audience... Anyway, as the episode goes on, we will discover the truth and understand why he is doing all this.
ReplyDeleteIf any of you saw JJ Abrams new Star Trek, there was a crucial scene in which Spock Prime (the older Spock) tells Kirk to take control of Enterprise by making Spock believe that he is unfit for duty. Kirk subsequently provokes Spock into a violent reaction, making Spock realize that he is, indeed 'emotionally compromised' and resigns from his post.
ReplyDeleteAlso, in Star Trek universe, the Vulcans do not completely eschew emotion. They do feel passion, anger and love but they do not let them dictate their actions, and do not display it openly. In fact, the Romulans, who share ancestry with the Vulcans, represent the flip side: they let their passions dictate their actions and display it openly, though they are aware of rationality. Humans, then are a balance between the two extremes.
Also there is one more dynamic: nobody is really sure how Spock's mind works. (This is in fact, the prime source of conflict in many episodes and films). Most of the time his thoughts are hidden behind a stoic and still expression, and nobody can tell whether he is analyzing a situation, tacitly accepting the consequences, doing some introspection, or formulating a mutiny.
I agree with hasan that no one has any idea how spock's mind works, in his mind he could still always be telling the truth and that in some way there was a transmission and although he fabricated it maybe in some way he calculated that his actions were for the best and he needed to have them. Also, I feel that he asked to be arrested at the end because it was at the point where nothing could be done by anyone other than him to stop the process and therefore he was able to turn himself in.
ReplyDelete